Legislature(2009 - 2010)CAPITOL 120

03/23/2009 08:00 AM House JUDICIARY


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08:17:25 AM Start
08:17:44 AM HB9
09:55:16 AM Adjourn
* first hearing in first committee of referral
+ teleconferenced
= bill was previously heard/scheduled
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+= HB 9 CAPITAL PUNISHMENT TELECONFERENCED
Heard & Held
+ Bills Previously Heard/Scheduled TELECONFERENCED
HB 9 - CAPITAL PUNISHMENT                                                                                                     
                                                                                                                                
8:17:44 AM                                                                                                                    
                                                                                                                                
CHAIR RAMRAS announced  that the only order of  business would be                                                               
HOUSE  BILL  NO.  9,  "An Act  relating  to  murder;  authorizing                                                               
capital punishment, classifying  murder in the first  degree as a                                                               
capital felony, and allowing the  imposition of the death penalty                                                               
for  certain  murders;  establishing  sentencing  procedures  for                                                               
capital felonies; and  amending Rules 32, 32.1,  and 32.3, Alaska                                                               
Rules of  Criminal Procedure, and  Rules 204, 209, 210,  and 212,                                                               
Alaska Rules of Appellate Procedure."   [Before the committee was                                                               
the  proposed committee  substitute (CS)  for HB  9, Version  26-                                                               
LS0036\E, Luckhaupt, 2/18/09, which had  been adopted as the work                                                               
draft on 2/23/09.]                                                                                                              
                                                                                                                                
8:19:15 AM                                                                                                                    
                                                                                                                                
ART KOENINGER indicated  that he would be  speaking in opposition                                                               
to HB 9.   Although HB 9 purports to  better protect society from                                                               
the  most heinous  of crimes  and impart  a more  perfect justice                                                               
while protecting the rights of  the innocent, goals he values and                                                               
supports, he remarked,  HB 9 will do little, he  opined, that the                                                               
existing system - via a  life sentence without the possibility of                                                               
parole  - doesn't  already offer  at less  expense and  with less                                                               
harm to society's collective psyche.   It is not enough to appear                                                               
to be  tough on crime,  and there are  more effective ways  to be                                                               
smart  on crime.   Mentioning  that  he has  known murderers  and                                                               
victims, and  their families,  he opined  that more  killing will                                                               
not  heal the  pain of  the victim's  families, will  create more                                                               
pain for  the perpetrator's  families, and  will not  make people                                                               
safer any more than  it will bring back the dead.   He said he is                                                               
familiar  with   capital  punishment  and  its   effects  on  the                                                               
communities in which it is carried  out, because his father was a                                                               
criminologist   who   worked   for  the   Texas   Department   of                                                               
Corrections,  extensively  researched  death penalty  issues  and                                                               
published  his findings,  and grew  to oppose  the death  penalty                                                               
when his research  illustrated the many glaring  racial and class                                                               
discrepancies inherent in the application of the death penalty.                                                                 
                                                                                                                                
MR. KOENINGER  noted that  even today, the  justice system  is as                                                               
imperfect as the  humans administering it.  He  surmised that the                                                               
Alaska  Native  Justice  Center  (ANJC) would  be  able  to  give                                                               
convincing   reasons    why   a    death   penalty    will   fall                                                               
disproportionately   on  Alaska   Natives.     Furthermore,   the                                                               
irreversibility   of   capital   punishment   differentiates   it                                                               
radically from  all other  sentences, and  future changes  in law                                                               
will  be  of  no  avail  to those  who  will  have  already  been                                                               
executed.    Other  states  are  beginning  to  "rescind"  State-                                                               
sanctioned killing, with  New Mexico being the  most recent state                                                               
to  do so.   Alaskans  have done  without the  death penalty  for                                                               
decades,  and will  eventually rid  themselves of  this injustice                                                               
again should HB 9 pass.   No amount of "legal tweaking" or number                                                               
of  rationalizations  can  ensure  that  the  innocent  won't  be                                                               
executed.    Delegating   the  responsibility  of  premeditatedly                                                               
killing  another human  being  is an  abhorrent  burden on  State                                                               
employees  and medical  personnel, and  asks of  the latter  that                                                               
they violate their oath to do no harm.                                                                                          
                                                                                                                                
MR. KOENINGER,  in conclusion, encouraged the  committee to table                                                               
the  bill and  instead  focus on  restorative  justice with  real                                                               
solutions that address the root causes of crime.                                                                                
                                                                                                                                
8:22:59 AM                                                                                                                    
                                                                                                                                
AVERIL LERMAN said  she opposes HB 9, adding that  she is a legal                                                               
historian  who's spent  many years  studying the  history of  the                                                               
death penalty in  territorial Alaska between 1900 and  1957.  Her                                                               
research, she relayed, has  included extensive documentary review                                                               
in  archives and  libraries,  and more  than  50 interviews  with                                                               
people  who  were present,  active,  and  part of  what  happened                                                               
during the executions  that took place in  Juneau, in particular,                                                               
as  well  as  in  other  locations.    Her  research,  she  said,                                                               
illustrates that  those communities  that used the  death penalty                                                               
later came to  reject it.  For example, in  Fairbanks, there were                                                               
three hangings in the 1920s, but  after that decade, not one more                                                               
person  was  hanged,  although   homicides  continued  to  occur;                                                               
consider,  it was  a town  full  of young  men and  liquor -  two                                                               
factors that  when put together  resulted in homicides.   Juneau,                                                               
as  well, was  a  town full  of  young men,  men  working in  the                                                               
fishing industry, and a lot  of liquor; there were three hangings                                                               
in Juneau  between 1939  and 1950, and  then no  further hangings                                                               
until  1957, when  the territory's  death penalty  was abolished,                                                               
though homicides  in Juneau continued to  occur.  So why  did the                                                               
Alaska  Territorial  Legislature  abolish the  death  penalty  in                                                               
Alaska, and  why did the hangings  stop?  She ventured  that it's                                                               
because the reality  of the death penalty is  very different than                                                               
what people think it will be when they enact it.                                                                                
                                                                                                                                
MS.  LERMAN  surmised  that  the   people  who  don't  personally                                                               
experience  all  the special  things  that  happen in  the  death                                                               
penalty process  often think  that capital  punishment is  a good                                                               
thing,  that  it   will  help  reduce  violent   crime,  that  it                                                               
represents justice, and  that maybe it's somewhat fair  to take a                                                               
life for  a life  - after  all, doesn't the  bible speak  to that                                                               
issue?   That's what she used  to think, she relayed,  before she                                                               
got close  enough to the  death penalty  "to actually get  a good                                                               
smell of it."   Others who live with the  death penalty system in                                                               
their community start  to change their minds  after being exposed                                                               
to it for a  while.  In territorial Alaska, it  was ten years per                                                               
town.   Some people  change their minds  about the  death penalty                                                               
when  they see  that it's  only the  poor who  are put  to death.                                                               
Rich  men didn't  hang in  territorial Alaska;  everyone who  was                                                               
executed in  Alaska was completely  poor, though there  were many                                                               
murders committed  by men  of means, many  of whom  were actually                                                               
pardoned.                                                                                                                       
                                                                                                                                
MS. LERMAN said  some people change their  minds about supporting                                                               
the death  penalty when they see  that it is nonwhite  people and                                                               
ethnic minorities  who are much  more likely  to be on  death row                                                               
than white people are.  In  territorial Alaska, 75 percent of all                                                               
murders were committed  by white men, but the  only people hanged                                                               
after 1904  were either African  American, Alaska Native,  or, in                                                               
one case, an  immigrant from Montenegro who was referred  to as a                                                               
"bohunk" and  a "black  fella" in  the newspaper.   In  the three                                                               
Fairbanks hangings, one  was the Montenegrin and  two were Alaska                                                               
Natives; in the  three Juneau hangings, one was  "Indian" and two                                                               
were African  Americans.   Some people  change their  minds about                                                               
the death penalty  when they see that although  it's intended for                                                               
the most  heinous of murderers,  that's not who actually  ends up                                                               
dangling from  the rope.   For example,  in Fairbanks in  1929, a                                                               
young  Alaska Native  named Constantine  Beaver was  sentenced to                                                               
die for  killing his good buddy  during a drunken brawl.   Beaver                                                               
loved his friend  and was overwhelmed with remorse  for what he'd                                                               
done, and U.S. Deputy Frank  T. Young described hanging Beaver as                                                               
"the saddest  affair I've had  to witness," and  resigned shortly                                                               
thereafter;  Beaver  was   the  last  person  to   be  hanged  in                                                               
Fairbanks.                                                                                                                      
                                                                                                                                
MS. LERMAN  said that this  pattern continued elsewhere  as well.                                                               
For  example, she's  spoken  to  a number  of  people who'd  been                                                               
drafted  into participating  in the  hangings in  Juneau, and  50                                                               
years later,  their anger, bitterness,  and resentment  at having                                                               
to recall  those hangings was evident.   With regard to  the hurt                                                               
that's inflicted  on the people  who've become involved  with the                                                               
death  penalty, she  noted  that  the wife  of  one  of the  city                                                               
patrolman  who'd been  pulled into  the Juneau  death chamber  to                                                               
help  hang Eugene  LaMoore asked  during her  interview, "Doesn't                                                               
anybody  think about  the people  who have  to do  these things?"                                                               
Some people change their minds  about the death penalty when they                                                               
see what  participating in the  process does  to people.   One of                                                               
the  other  officers at  that  hanging,  when asked  whether  Mr.                                                               
LaMoore was  shaking on his  way to the gallows,  responded, with                                                               
great resentment, "Not any more than  the rest of us," Ms. Lerman                                                               
relayed, and surmised that such  resentment and hurt feelings are                                                               
common amongst people who get close to the death penalty.                                                                       
                                                                                                                                
MS. LERMAN noted  that one person who changed his  mind about the                                                               
death penalty was  U.S. Supreme Court Justice  Harry A. Blackmun,                                                               
who  tried hard  to  make the  death  penalty constitutional  and                                                               
didn't  have any  opposition to  it, but  who eventually  said in                                                               
part [in Callins v. Collins]:                                                                                                 
                                                                                                                                
     Twenty  years have  passed  since  this Court  declared                                                                    
     that  the death  penalty  must be  imposed fairly,  and                                                                    
     with reasonable  consistency, or  not at all,  ... and,                                                                    
     despite the effort  of the States and  courts to devise                                                                    
     legal  formulas  and  procedural  rules  to  meet  this                                                                    
     daunting challenge,  the death penalty  remains fraught                                                                    
     with   arbitrariness,   discrimination,  caprice,   and                                                                    
     mistake. ... From  this day forward, I  no longer shall                                                                    
     tinker with the  machinery of death.  For  more than 20                                                                    
     years I  have endeavored ... to  develop procedural and                                                                    
     substantive rules  that would  lend more than  the mere                                                                    
     appearance of  fairness to the death  penalty endeavor.                                                                    
     Rather  than continue  to coddle  the Court's  delusion                                                                    
     that the  desired level of  fairness has  been achieved                                                                    
     ...,  I  feel   morally  and  intellectually  obligated                                                                    
     simply  to concede  that the  death penalty  experiment                                                                    
     has failed.   It  is virtually self  evident to  me now                                                                    
     that no combination of  procedural rules or substantive                                                                    
     regulations ever  can save the  death penalty  from its                                                                    
     inherent constitutional deficiencies.                                                                                      
                                                                                                                                
MS. LERMAN, in  conclusion, surmised that this  same decision had                                                               
been reached by  the Alaska Territorial Legislature  in 1957, and                                                               
characterized [the  abolishment of  Alaska's death penalty]  as a                                                               
good decision that shouldn't be changed.                                                                                        
                                                                                                                                
8:31:09 AM                                                                                                                    
                                                                                                                                
CONNIE JONES, Reverend, St. Mary's  Episcopal Church, said she is                                                               
strongly  opposed  to  HB  9,  and that  her  church,  since  its                                                               
inception  in 1958,  has gone  on record  four different  times -                                                               
1958,  1969, 1979,  and  1991 -  as being  opposed  to the  death                                                               
penalty.   The  Episcopal Church  opposes the  death penalty  for                                                               
theological reasons -  that being that the life  of an individual                                                               
is  of infinite  worth  in the  sight of  almighty  god, and  the                                                               
taking  of such  a  human  life falls  within  the providence  of                                                               
almighty god and  not within the right of man  - she relayed, and                                                               
indicated   that   she   also   opposes   it   because   of   its                                                               
disproportionate  effect on  minorities, its  cost, and  the fact                                                               
that if  a person lives in  certain areas of the  country, he/she                                                               
is  more likely  to be  executed than  if he/she  lives somewhere                                                               
else.   At  the end  of  the church's  resolutions regarding  the                                                               
death  penalty, the  general convention  calls upon  all dioceses                                                               
and  members to  work actively  to abolish  the death  penalty in                                                               
their states.   In conclusion,  she said that  as long as  she is                                                               
able to  breathe a  breath on  this earth,  she would  oppose the                                                               
death  penalty regardless  of  what amendments  are  made to  any                                                               
legislation [pertaining to it].                                                                                                 
                                                                                                                                
8:35:00 AM                                                                                                                    
                                                                                                                                
ERIC WOLHFORTH,  Chancellor, St.  Mary's Episcopal  Church, noted                                                               
that New Jersey had the death  penalty for 23 years, but recently                                                               
repealed  it;  during those  23  years,  there were  228  capital                                                               
murder trials,  only 60  convictions, and  no actual  exercise of                                                               
the  death penalty.   New  Jersey lawmakers  amended the  state's                                                               
death  penalty 42  times  in  an attempt  to  conform  it to  the                                                               
state's  constitution, and  the state  spent an  average of  $4.2                                                               
million   on  each   of   the   aforementioned  60   convictions.                                                               
Ultimately, New Jersey repealed its  death penalty on the grounds                                                               
that it  simply did not work.   He pointed out  that other states                                                               
are  taking the  same steps;  for  example, the  governor of  New                                                               
Mexico signed the repeal of  that state's death penalty just last                                                               
week.   The  modern view,  he  surmised, indicates  that a  death                                                               
penalty would be an impractical approach  for Alaska to take.  In                                                               
conclusion,  he  suggested  to members  that  they  consider  New                                                               
Jersey's experience.                                                                                                            
                                                                                                                                
8:38:39 AM                                                                                                                    
                                                                                                                                
JEFFREY A. MITTMAN, Executive  Director, American Civil Liberties                                                               
Union  of Alaska  (ACLU of  Alaska) -  after mentioning  that the                                                               
ACLU  of  Alaska is  a  nonpartisan  organization that  seeks  to                                                               
protect  the rights  of all  Alaskans as  guaranteed by  the U.S.                                                               
Constitution  and the  Alaska State  Constitution,  and seeks  to                                                               
preserve and  expand civil liberties  - relayed that the  ACLU of                                                               
Alaska strongly  opposes HB 9,  adding that the death  penalty is                                                               
the ultimate denial of civil  liberties.  Referring to Callins v.                                                             
Collins, he noted  that Justice Blackmun also said  in part, "the                                                             
inevitability  of factual,  legal,  and moral  error  gives us  a                                                               
system that we know must wrongly kill some defendants".                                                                         
                                                                                                                                
MR. MITTMAN  remarked that state  commissions looking  at factual                                                               
data have found  that capital punishment is  absolutely linked to                                                               
race  and  socioeconomic  status.    In  December  of  2008,  the                                                               
Maryland Commission  on Capital  Punishment, in its  final report                                                               
to the  General Assembly, found  that racial  disparities existed                                                               
in Maryland's  capital sentencing  system, and, that  while there                                                               
was  no evidence  of  purposeful  discrimination, the  statistics                                                               
examined   from   death   penalty   cases   demonstrated   racial                                                               
disparities when  the factors  of the race  of the  defendant and                                                               
the  race  of  the  victim  are combined.    Also  in  2008,  the                                                               
California  Commission  on  the Fair  Administration  of  Justice                                                               
found  that   overall,  controlling   for  all   other  predictor                                                               
variables, all  those who kill  African Americans,  regardless of                                                               
the ethnicity or  race of the perpetrator, are  59.3 percent less                                                               
likely to be sentenced to  death than those who kill non-Hispanic                                                               
whites.                                                                                                                         
                                                                                                                                
MR. MITTMAN  relayed that data  gathered from around  the country                                                               
illustrate that  defendants charged with killing  victims high in                                                               
socioeconomic  status   face  a  significantly  higher   risk  of                                                               
execution.      The   death   penalty's   historic   racial   and                                                               
socioeconomic  bias   persists  despite   the  best   efforts  of                                                               
legislatures  and  judges to  erect  fair  and equitable  capital                                                               
punishment procedures.   With regard  to how such  information is                                                               
pertinent  to Alaska,  he  pointed  out that  in  2007, the  U.S.                                                               
Census  Bureau  estimated  that   Alaska  Natives  comprise  15.2                                                               
percent  of the  population,  whereas the  2008 offender  profile                                                               
compiled   by  the   Alaska  Department   of  Corrections   (DOC)                                                               
illustrates  that Alaska  Natives  comprise 35.8  percent of  the                                                               
offenders  in institutions;  in  other words,  the Alaska  Native                                                               
community  is "more  than twice  overrepresented in  the criminal                                                               
justice system."  People must  acknowledge that the death penalty                                                               
will,  inevitably,  be  disproportionately  applied  against  the                                                               
state's  Alaska Native  population,  and that  such  a result  is                                                               
unacceptable, he opined.                                                                                                        
                                                                                                                                
MR.  MITTMAN   questioned  why,   during  this  time   of  fiscal                                                               
limitations,  when   resources  could   be  used  for   more  law                                                               
enforcement  officers, victims'  services,  education, and  crime                                                               
prevention  programs,  the  legislature  is  debating  committing                                                               
resources to  a system  that's proven to  have failed.   Alaskans                                                               
are  unique and  choose their  own special  paths, but  can still                                                               
learn from the  experiences of New Jersey,  Maryland, New Mexico,                                                               
Montana, and Colorado.  He  noted that Reverend Carol J. Pickett,                                                               
a witness  to 95 executions  in Texas,  has pointed out  that the                                                               
death   penalty  is   also  extremely   hazardous  and   hard  on                                                               
correctional  system employees,  who are  negatively affected  by                                                               
having to participate in executions.   In conclusion, Mr. Mittman                                                               
asked members  to vote "do  not pass" on  HB 9, and  instead turn                                                               
their attention to those matters that will benefit Alaskans.                                                                    
                                                                                                                                
8:43:12 AM                                                                                                                    
                                                                                                                                
MR. MITTMAN, in  response to a question, surmised  that both race                                                               
and  a   lack  of   financial  resources   are  factors   in  the                                                               
disproportionate number  of minorities being sentenced  to death.                                                               
Studies  indicate that  at every  point in  the judicial  system,                                                               
factors of race - not  necessarily via intentional discrimination                                                               
or  via a  systemic  problem  - enter  into  the  equation.   For                                                               
example:  compared  to a white person, a person  of color is more                                                               
likely to be  stopped and to receive initial  police contact, and                                                               
following that  first contact, a  person of color is  more likely                                                               
to have  his/her person or  vehicle searched, and  following that                                                               
search, a person  of color is more likely  to experience negative                                                               
consequences  in  terms  of sentencing  and  involvement  in  the                                                               
justice system.  Furthermore, factors of  race can play a part in                                                               
a person's  socioeconomic status, which  in turn can play  a part                                                               
in a person's  ability to hire competent counsel.   Both race and                                                               
socioeconomic  status   must  be   recognized  as   factors,  and                                                               
underscore  the  fact  that  the  justice  system  doesn't  treat                                                               
individuals fairly with regard to  such an important decision [as                                                               
whether to sentence someone to death].                                                                                          
                                                                                                                                
MR. MITTMAN,  in response to  another question, relayed  that the                                                               
ACLU  of Alaska's  web site  has additional  information on  this                                                               
topic,  and indicated  that the  [American Civil  Liberties Union                                                               
(ACLU)] has a  death penalty project that  has conducted research                                                               
across  the  country.    In response  to  further  questions,  he                                                               
mentioned  aspects and  focuses of  the  ACLU of  Alaska and  the                                                               
ACLU.                                                                                                                           
                                                                                                                                
8:47:47 AM                                                                                                                    
                                                                                                                                
CHAIR RAMRAS  relayed that a forthcoming  amendment would require                                                               
that  the death  penalty could  not  be sought  unless there  was                                                               
biological  evidence  or  deoxyribonucleic  acid  (DNA)  evidence                                                               
linking the  defendant to the  murder, or a  videotaped voluntary                                                               
confession by the  defendant to the murder, or  a video recording                                                               
conclusively   linking  the   defendant  to   the  murder.     He                                                               
characterized such items as irrefutable evidence.                                                                               
                                                                                                                                
MR. MITTMAN,  on the issue  of videotaped  confessions, explained                                                               
that  he  knows of  a  case  - the  name  of  which he  would  be                                                               
providing  the committee  - involving  a person  who submitted  a                                                               
signed,  written confession  that  was absolutely  false, and  so                                                               
that person  was exonerated and is  no longer on death  row.  The                                                               
idea of  "irrefutable evidence," he  opined, is a  legal fiction;                                                               
again, as Justice Blackmun stated,  "no combination of procedural                                                               
rules or substantive regulations ever  can save the death penalty                                                               
from its inherent constitutional  deficiencies".  Regardless that                                                               
an  appropriate constitutional  balance is  being sought  via the                                                               
forthcoming  amendment, it  is an  impossibility.   For  example,                                                               
eyewitness testimony  has been  accepted by  juries as  being the                                                               
most reliable  "irrefutable evidence,"  but there is  now factual                                                               
proof  that eyewitness  testimony can  be wrong.   Moreover,  the                                                               
fact  that there  are  instances in  which  someone confesses  to                                                               
murder  but his/her  confession  is then  found  to be  factually                                                               
incorrect when the real killer  is discovered shows that such so-                                                               
called  irrefutable  evidence  does  not  constitute  a  reliable                                                               
standard.   In  addition, he  pointed  out, DNA  evidence can  be                                                               
exclusionary   but   not   inclusionary.     Referring   to   the                                                               
aforementioned forthcoming  amendment, he  characterized it  as a                                                               
stool  the legs  of which  are not  solid enough  to support  the                                                               
concept of true irrefutable evidence.                                                                                           
                                                                                                                                
MR. MITTMAN, in  response to a question regarding  what impact he                                                               
thinks a severability clause would have on HB 9, remarked:                                                                      
                                                                                                                                
     The unconstitutionality  of the death penalty  rests on                                                                    
     many   issues  that   [have]  ...   to   do  with   its                                                                    
     application, that  [have] ...  to do with  the standard                                                                    
     of proof,  [that have]  ... to do  with the  ability to                                                                    
     apply it fairly.  There  are many issues that challenge                                                                    
     the  constitutionality   of  the  idea  of   the  death                                                                    
     penalty,  the idea  of capital  punishment,  so that  I                                                                    
     don't think that a severability  clause or lack thereof                                                                    
     would  be  a  primary  reason  for  challenging.    The                                                                    
     concern is  that there  are so  many issues  that raise                                                                    
     problems:   the  way it's  improperly applied,  the way                                                                    
     that  the standards  are incorrect,  the  way that  the                                                                    
     appeals  process  can  or cannot  be  followed  through                                                                    
     with.  So generally,  the unconstitutionality really is                                                                    
     to the principal of the system.                                                                                            
                                                                                                                                
8:54:42 AM                                                                                                                    
                                                                                                                                
REPRESENTATIVE GRUENBERG questioned  whether the term "biological                                                               
evidence"  as used  in the  aforementioned forthcoming  amendment                                                               
could include  a blood test that  doesn't rise to the  level of a                                                               
DNA  sample  test, and  whether  such  could potentially  link  a                                                               
defendant to a murder.                                                                                                          
                                                                                                                                
MR. MITTMAN said that with  regard to biological evidence and DNA                                                               
evidence,   it's   important   to   remember   the   concept   of                                                               
"inclusionary versus exclusionary evidence."   For example, there                                                               
can  be DNA  evidence that  proves the  defendant could  not have                                                               
been the person  involved who left the biological  sample, but in                                                               
many  cases,  there  isn't  any  biological  evidence,  so  there                                                               
wouldn't be  any opportunity to  exculpate a person who  could be                                                               
innocent.    The  ACLU  of  Alaska sees  the  inclusion  of  such                                                               
language  as  an  effort  to  find  some  way  to  create  rules,                                                               
regulations, or  procedures that  protect the  capital punishment                                                               
system  from its  unconstitutional infirmities.   He  too pointed                                                               
out  that  Justice  Blackmun  has noted  that  many  states  have                                                               
attempted to  create such rules  and regulations but  have always                                                               
failed.                                                                                                                         
                                                                                                                                
8:56:11 AM                                                                                                                    
                                                                                                                                
GLENDA KERRY, Attorney  at Law, said she is opposed  to the death                                                               
penalty  based  on  a position  of  personal  responsibility  and                                                               
accountability for one's actions.   She personally is not willing                                                               
to take the life of another  person, she relayed, and offered her                                                               
belief that  anyone who  supports the death  penalty needs  to be                                                               
willing to personally snuff out the  life of another person.  She                                                               
surmised  that when  it  comes  down to  the  details of  putting                                                               
someone to death, a lot  of people wouldn't themselves be willing                                                               
to take that action, and would  therefore be opposed to the death                                                               
penalty based on  their unwillingness to do the dirty  work.  She                                                               
offered  her  understanding  that  there is  a  movement  amongst                                                               
physicians to  declare that it  is against their ethical  code to                                                               
kill and so  therefore they won't execute anyone.   She said that                                                               
based  on her  experience,  the criminal  justice  system is  not                                                               
state of  the art and is  fraught with errors; therefore,  if the                                                               
death  penalty  is  passed  in  Alaska, it  will  be  imposed  on                                                               
minorities  but not  on  those of  equally  culpable conduct  who                                                               
happened to be white, middleclass.                                                                                              
                                                                                                                                
MS. KERRY, in response to a  question, relayed that she has had a                                                               
couple of  clients whom she  strongly doubted were guilty  of the                                                               
crimes they  were charged  with.   There are  a lot  of instances                                                               
involving  false  confessions,  which  occur  for  a  variety  of                                                               
reasons, she  remarked.   Furthermore, some  types of  people are                                                               
more likely to make false confessions,  such as those who are not                                                               
confident in  engaging with law  enforcement officers,  those who                                                               
are more  timid in their interactions;  such people can be  led -                                                               
even unintentionally  - into making  a confession.   Such leading                                                               
can occur when police are just  trying to do their job and figure                                                               
out  what happened,  but it  creates  a situation  in which  they                                                               
reach the wrong conclusion.   Such situations do occur in Alaska,                                                               
she noted.                                                                                                                      
                                                                                                                                
MS.  KERRY, in  response to  a question,  said she'd  once had  a                                                               
client  who was  mentally ill  and  who confessed  to a  homicide                                                               
after being involuntarily medicated by the State.                                                                               
                                                                                                                                
REPRESENTATIVE  GRUENBERG   mentioned  that   there  is   also  a                                                               
forthcoming  amendment   that  would   require  what   he  termed                                                               
"reciprocal  discovery" during  the  penalty phase  of a  capital                                                               
felony  prosecution.   He  offered  his  belief that  two  Alaska                                                               
Supreme  Court cases  -  Scott  v. State,  519  P.2d 774  (Alaska                                                             
1974), and  State v.  Summerville, 948 P.2d  469 (Alaska  1997) -                                                             
have  held that  "this"  would be  an unconstitutional  provision                                                               
because, among  other things, it  would require the  defendant to                                                               
waive his/her privilege against self-incrimination.                                                                             
                                                                                                                                
MS.  KERRY offered  her understanding  that  there are  a lot  of                                                               
public   policy   reasons   against  providing   for   reciprocal                                                               
discovery.   For  example,  the  defendant ought  to  be able  to                                                               
disclose everything to his/her attorney,  knowing that it will be                                                               
kept   confidential.      Therefore,  she   opined,   [reciprocal                                                               
discovery] must be  guarded against, characterizing it  as a wise                                                               
decision  to  keep attorney-client  communications  confidential.                                                               
In  response  to   a  question,  she  offered   her  belief  that                                                               
reciprocal  discovery   would  impinge  on   the  attorney-client                                                               
privilege.                                                                                                                      
                                                                                                                                
9:03:45 AM                                                                                                                    
                                                                                                                                
BARBARA BRINK  - after  relaying that she  was a  public defender                                                               
for the State of Alaska for  23 years, and that she had testified                                                               
before but  had limited her  comments to  the issues of  cost and                                                               
the danger  of executing innocent  people - indicated  that today                                                               
she   would   be  addressing   the   testimony   provided  by   a                                                               
representative  of  the Department  of  Law  (DOL) on  [March  2,                                                               
2009], testimony which deeply upset  and disturbed her because it                                                               
appeared  that the  DOL representative,  when speaking  about the                                                               
deterrent effect  of the death  penalty, was trying to  leave the                                                               
committee  with the  impression that  if Alaska  had had  a death                                                               
penalty,  that  it would  have  prevented  additional murders  in                                                               
three specific  instances, and  that nothing  short of  the death                                                               
penalty would have  done so.  Ms. Brink  explained, however, that                                                               
under  the   facts  of   the  cases  referred   to  by   the  DOL                                                               
representative  - Mr.  Novak -  nothing could  have been  further                                                               
from the truth.                                                                                                                 
                                                                                                                                
MS. BRINK said:                                                                                                                 
                                                                                                                                
     [Mr. Novak]  ... talked  about the  [Douglas] Gustafson                                                                    
     and  [Raymond] Cheely  case,  where  Mr. Gustafson  and                                                                    
     [Mr.] Cheely were convicted  of homicide after shooting                                                                    
     into a moving car and  killing a person; they then went                                                                    
     on to  plan further  crimes and  a homicide  while they                                                                    
     were in  custody.   [Mr. Novak] ...  left you  with the                                                                    
     impression  that  had  we had  a  death  penalty,  that                                                                    
     couldn't  have happened  and this  innocent life  would                                                                    
     not have  been lost.   But in  fact, Mr.  Gustafson and                                                                    
     Mr.  Cheely were  acquitted of  first  degree murder  -                                                                    
     they  were  only  convicted of  second  degree  murder.                                                                    
     [So]  even if  Alaska [had]  had a  death penalty,  the                                                                    
     death  penalty   would  not   have  applied   to  those                                                                    
     gentlemen, and so having a  death penalty or not having                                                                    
     a  death   penalty  would   have  made   absolutely  no                                                                    
     difference in what happened  after they were convicted.                                                                    
     For the State  [DOL] to claim the  death penalty [would                                                                    
     have been] a deterrent in that situation is false.                                                                         
                                                                                                                                
     Secondly,  [Mr.  Novak]  ...   mentioned  the  case  of                                                                    
     Timothy Donnelly,  who, in  a fight  in a  jail, killed                                                                    
     another person.  But Mr.  Donnelly was not convicted in                                                                    
     the State  of Alaska criminal  justice system -  he was                                                                    
     convicted in federal  court - [and so]  An Alaska death                                                                    
     penalty  would not  have applied  to  Mr. Donnelly  and                                                                    
     would not  have prevented  any killings, and,  in fact,                                                                    
     he was  not only  convicted in a  federal court  but he                                                                    
     was doing his time in a  federal prison in Georgia.  An                                                                    
     Alaska death  penalty is not  going to have  any effect                                                                    
     on  whether  or  not  the  Georgia  Federal  Bureau  of                                                                    
     Prisons  facility has  adequate  security  in order  to                                                                    
     protect  its  inmates.    And  in  fact,  Mr.  Donnelly                                                                    
     himself was  killed in that  very same  Georgia Federal                                                                    
     Bureau of Prisons facility.                                                                                                
                                                                                                                                
     The third  example that Mr.  Novak gave us was  that of                                                                    
     Carl Abuhl, who was  convicted of homicide in Ketchikan                                                                    
     and  then  killed an  inmate  by  the name  of  Gregory                                                                    
     Beaudoin  in a  State  facility here  in  Alaska.   Mr.                                                                    
     Novak again  left us  with the  impression that  had we                                                                    
     had a  death penalty  in Alaska at  the time,  that Mr.                                                                    
     Beaudoin  would  have  not been  attacked  and  killed.                                                                    
     However,  that,  again, is  a  false  assertion:   Carl                                                                    
     Abuhl, also, was  not convicted of murder  in the first                                                                    
     degree  - he  was  convicted of  murder  in the  second                                                                    
     degree.   Even if  we ...  had a  death penalty  in the                                                                    
     state of  Alaska, he would  not have been  eligible for                                                                    
     execution - he would not have faced it.                                                                                    
                                                                                                                                
MS. BRINK continued:                                                                                                            
                                                                                                                                
     So  the ...  State's argument  that these  deaths would                                                                    
     have  been   prevented  had  we  a   death  penalty  is                                                                    
     completely fallacious.   I  would ask  this [committee]                                                                    
     ... not  to consider  that testimony,  and, in  fact, I                                                                    
     have looked for a case in  Alaska where we had a person                                                                    
     who  was convicted  of first  degree  murder who  might                                                                    
     have been  prevented from doing  further crimes  had we                                                                    
     had  a death  penalty, and  I could  not find  one.   I                                                                    
     assume the  State could  not find  one either,  or they                                                                    
     would  have  brought it  to  our  attention instead  of                                                                    
     these  examples   that  were  untrue.     There  is  no                                                                    
     deterrent effect ... with the death penalty.                                                                               
                                                                                                                                
     Recent  studies in  Oklahoma and  California failed  to                                                                    
     find that  capital punishment had any  deterrent effect                                                                    
     on violent crimes, and, in  fact, found that there were                                                                    
     significant increases in  stranger-killing and homicide                                                                    
     rates  after the  death penalty  was reinstated  in ...                                                                    
     1976.  In  contrast, the murder rate  in Canada dropped                                                                    
     by 27 percent since the  death penalty was abolished in                                                                    
     1976.     And   a  New   York  Times   survey  recently                                                                  
     demonstrated  that   homicide  rates  in   states  with                                                                    
     capital punishment  are 48 to  101 percent  higher than                                                                    
     those  states without  the death  penalty.   The  death                                                                    
     penalty  has  no  individual   deterrence,  it  has  no                                                                    
     general deterrence -  it should not be  employed in the                                                                    
     state of Alaska.  Thank you.                                                                                               
                                                                                                                                
CHAIR  RAMRAS said  he is  not the  least bit  interested in  the                                                               
death penalty  as a  deterrent, but  rather simply  believes that                                                               
there  are just  some  people  who do  crimes  heinous enough  to                                                               
deserve the  death penalty.   He expressed an interest  in moving                                                               
forward with [adopting]  the aforementioned forthcoming amendment                                                               
pertaining  to what  he'd  earlier  characterized as  irrefutable                                                               
evidence, indicating  his belief that  it would narrow  the scope                                                               
of people to whom the bill would apply.                                                                                         
                                                                                                                                
9:09:15 AM                                                                                                                    
                                                                                                                                
MS.  BRINK  said  that  she  doesn't believe  that  the  goal  of                                                               
criminal justice systems is revenge;  that she doesn't understand                                                               
the concept of  making a judgment regarding who  deserves to die;                                                               
that  she doesn't  think  doing  so is  necessary;  and that  she                                                               
thinks  that sentencing  people  to serve  long  sentences -  for                                                               
example  99-year sentences  - simply  addresses  a public  safety                                                               
concern, offering her belief that  that's the point of a criminal                                                               
justice system.  She elaborated:                                                                                                
                                                                                                                                
     So  it isn't  a  matter of  judging  or deciding  who's                                                                    
     deserving of  a worse punishment or  more infliction of                                                                    
     pain.  The reason we put  somebody in jail for 99 years                                                                    
     is  because we  need to  protect the  public from  them                                                                    
     forever,  and I  think that  the idea  that because  of                                                                    
     someone's acts they deserve  a more heinous punishment,                                                                    
     that  doesn't  compute  to  me  in  terms  of  criminal                                                                    
     justice policy.  Criminal justice  policy is [meant] to                                                                    
     protect  the public  and to  punish  heinous acts,  and                                                                    
     drawing  a  line  between   doing  something  worse  to                                                                    
     somebody  because  what  they've  done  is  even  worse                                                                    
     doesn't seem to me to  satisfy any public interest that                                                                    
     we have as a community or as a government.                                                                                 
                                                                                                                                
REPRESENTATIVE  GRUENBERG expressed  concern  regarding the  fact                                                               
that  the DOL  knew that  the case  examples Mr.  Novak presented                                                               
were not on  point.  He offered his understanding  that under the                                                               
Alaska Rules  of Professional Conduct,  Rule 3.3  requires candor                                                               
towards a  tribunal, in that a  lawyer is not supposed  to make a                                                               
false  statement  of   material  fact  of  law   to  a  tribunal.                                                               
Acknowledging that  a legislative committee is  not technically a                                                               
tribunal in the  same sense as a court, he  said he believes that                                                               
a lawyer ethically  has the same duty of candor  in a legislative                                                               
hearing  that he/she  would have  in court  - that  being to  not                                                               
knowingly mislead.                                                                                                              
                                                                                                                                
MS. BRINK concurred.                                                                                                            
                                                                                                                                
9:13:45 AM                                                                                                                    
                                                                                                                                
MS. BRINK,  on the issue  of "irrefutable evidence,"  offered her                                                               
understanding  that the  National  Science  Foundation (NSF)  has                                                               
recently  issued a  report calling  into  question a  lot of  the                                                               
forensic  evidence  that the  criminal  justice  system has  been                                                               
using  for  years   to  convict  people.    She   said  that  she                                                               
appreciates  the  committee's  concern   and  desire  to  have  a                                                               
requirement  that there  be so-called  "irrefutable evidence"  in                                                               
order to  impose a  death penalty, but  thinks that  "we'll never                                                               
know  whether  we  have irrefutable  science"  -  technology  and                                                               
science are changing so rapidly  that evidence used in trials she                                                               
participated  in,  such as  fingerprints  and  blood spatter  and                                                               
blood  testing,  have  since come  into  question  though  people                                                               
thought  that  at the  time  that  such  were reliable  forms  of                                                               
evidence.   With the  expansion of  knowledge, problems  with DNA                                                               
evidence,  for example,  could  be found,  and  this is  evidence                                                               
which  is now  thought of  as irrefutable.   She  added, "So  I'd                                                               
simply  urge  caution because  the  state  of science  is  always                                                               
changing,  and I  don't know  that we  will ever  have biological                                                               
evidence that we can rely on 100 percent."                                                                                      
                                                                                                                                
MS.  BRINK,  in response  to  a  question regarding  whether  she                                                               
thinks  the bill  is  severable,  said it  would  depend on  what                                                               
portion  of the  bill a  particular case  was being  appealed on,                                                               
adding "you cannot tell whether  its severable until you find out                                                               
what the issue is and what part you're trying to take out."                                                                     
                                                                                                                                
9:15:44 AM                                                                                                                    
                                                                                                                                
SETH CHURCH expressed  support for HB 9, saying  he believes that                                                               
the  victim deserves  to have  justice  as much  as the  criminal                                                               
deserves  to get  punishment  -  it's not  just  a public  safety                                                               
issue, it's repayment for what was done to the victim.                                                                          
                                                                                                                                
9:16:33 AM                                                                                                                    
                                                                                                                                
SHIRLEY DICKENS said she is the  mother of a son who was murdered                                                               
in 1984, that  he was found bludgeoned to death  in Kincaid Park,                                                               
and that  her son's murder  has never been  solved.  In  spite of                                                               
this, she  relayed, she  would be speaking  against HB  9 because                                                               
when her son  was murdered, she was so stricken  by the horror of                                                               
taking a  human life that  she came down  morally on the  side of                                                               
being against  the death  penalty, and  feels even  more strongly                                                               
about it now.  She went on to say:                                                                                              
                                                                                                                                
     We should  put our effort, as  I have tried to  do ever                                                                    
     since then,  into preventing murder  so that all  of us                                                                    
     know we are connected, [that]  when we kill someone, we                                                                    
     are hurting ourselves deeply, morally.   It is wrong to                                                                    
     kill,  and if  it's wrong  to take  a human  life, then                                                                    
     it's  almost  more  abhorrent  to  me  for  the  State,                                                                    
     coldly, in the  name of justice, to take  a human life.                                                                    
     Now,  if  someone has  been  convicted  of murder,  and                                                                    
     their crime  is heinous  enough, lock  them up  for the                                                                    
     rest of their  life, but do not kill in  my name, I beg                                                                    
     you.   This would  be a step  backwards for  Alaska, it                                                                    
     would be, I think, a  black mark on our legislature and                                                                    
     on you all down there.                                                                                                     
                                                                                                                                
     And as far your feelings  [that] ... some crimes are so                                                                    
     horrible   that   it   isn't  enough   to   lock   [the                                                                    
     perpetrator] up forever, after my  son was killed ... I                                                                    
     had this  strong feeling ...  that said,  "Vengeance is                                                                    
     mine ...  saith the lord,"  [so] don't you  worry about                                                                    
     it:   you put  energy into making  this world  a better                                                                    
     place  by supporting  the children,  the abused  women,                                                                    
     the  neglected  children,   helping  people  to  parent                                                                    
     better, [and]  to know that  [it] ... is a  great moral                                                                    
     wrong  to kill.    So I  urge you,  "Not  in my  name."                                                                    
     Thank you.                                                                                                                 
                                                                                                                                
9:21:01 AM                                                                                                                    
                                                                                                                                
BARBARA BACHMEIER pointed out that  Article I, Section 12, of the                                                               
Alaska State  Constitution mandates that  criminal administration                                                               
be  based  on  the  need for  protecting  the  public,  community                                                               
condemnation of  the offender, the  rights of victims  of crimes,                                                               
restitution from the offender, and  the principle of reformation.                                                               
The  point  of   reformation,  she  opined,  is   to  improve  or                                                               
rehabilitate the offender so that  he/she, potentially, can cease                                                               
to be  a threat  to the  public.   The Alaska  State Constitution                                                               
guarantees specific  rights -  including reformative  services at                                                               
State  expense -  to offenders  following  conviction and  during                                                               
incarceration, and there  is no exception for  those convicted of                                                               
capital crimes,  and [the  legislature] has a  duty to  honor the                                                               
constitution  and  all  of  its  provisions.    She  offered  her                                                               
understanding,  also, that  the  Alaska Supreme  Court, in  1997,                                                               
recognized rehabilitation  as a  fundamental right in  Brandon v.                                                             
State Department  of Corrections.  Moreover,  although some would                                                             
argue  that reformative  services offered  to offenders  on death                                                               
row would  be a waste  of State time  and money, she  opined that                                                               
people should  be mindful of the  fact that not all  offenders on                                                               
death row are actually put to  death.  For example, the Innocence                                                               
Project   has   overturned   convictions  -   including   capital                                                               
punishment  convictions -  by presenting  DNA  evidence that  was                                                               
unavailable at the time of the court proceedings.                                                                               
                                                                                                                                
MS. BACHMEIER  surmised that  the money  wasted on  those charged                                                               
and convicted of capital offenses  would be spent on salaries and                                                               
benefits  for additional  prosecutors  and  public defenders,  on                                                               
long, protracted  legal battles  and appeals, on  expensive court                                                               
costs, and  on other costs  as well.   Legislation reestablishing                                                               
capital   punishment  in   Alaska  will   deny  offenders   their                                                               
constitutional  right  to  rehabilitation.   In  conclusion,  she                                                               
urged the  committee to  let HB 9  die quickly  and deliberately,                                                               
not Alaskans convicted of capital crimes.                                                                                       
                                                                                                                                
9:26:08 AM                                                                                                                    
                                                                                                                                
DOUG  WOOLIVER,  Administrative Attorney,  Administrative  Staff,                                                               
Office  of  the  Administrative  Director,  Alaska  Court  System                                                               
(ACS), said that  the ACS is neutral  on HB 9.  In  response to a                                                               
question, he explained  that there are two  challenges to seating                                                               
a  jury in  a death  penalty case,  one being  the length  of the                                                               
trial - few people  can commit to serving for such  a long time -                                                               
and the  other being that  a juror  has to be  "death qualified,"                                                               
meaning  that  he/she has  to  be  willing  to impose  the  death                                                               
penalty should  the case warrant it.   In rural areas  of Alaska,                                                               
for example,  the ACS routinely  calls 100 perspective  jurors in                                                               
an effort  to get  just 12  jurors and  2 alternates  for regular                                                               
felony  cases;  in  rural  Alaska,   there  are  so  many  family                                                               
relations and other  connections that it can be  difficult to get                                                               
a  jury.   For  capital  crimes, he  relayed,  other states  call                                                               
between  200  and  1,700   prospective  jurors,  with  Washington                                                               
routinely  calling  1,000  prospective  jurors  and  Los  Angeles                                                               
County routinely calling 800 prospective jurors.                                                                                
                                                                                                                                
MR. WOOLIVER said  he assumes that in Alaska, the  ACS would have                                                               
to call about  500 prospective jurors, though one  of the factors                                                               
that would determine  how many people the ACS would  have to call                                                               
is the  attitude about the  death penalty  held by the  people in                                                               
the community  where the  trial was taking  place and  from which                                                               
the ACS would be pulling its  jurors.  Noting that testimony thus                                                               
far  has   indicated  that  the   Alaska  Native   population  is                                                               
substantially  opposed to  the death  penalty,  he surmised  that                                                               
seating  a  jury  in  rural hub  communities  such  as  Kotzebue,                                                               
Bethel, Nome,  or Barrow -  all felony trial sites  with superior                                                               
court judges  - would be  a real challenge.   He added that  as a                                                               
practical  matter,  if the  ACS  had  to call  1,000  prospective                                                               
jurors in Kotzebue,  for example, he doesn't know  how that would                                                               
be  accomplished.    He  mentioned that  the  DOL's  fiscal  note                                                               
recognizes  that the  smaller and  more remote  the community  in                                                               
which a capital  murder trial takes place, the  more difficult it                                                               
will become to hold that trial.                                                                                                 
                                                                                                                                
9:30:15 AM                                                                                                                    
                                                                                                                                
REPRESENTATIVE   HOLMES  asked   whether  there   would  be   any                                                               
constitutional  issues raised  regarding only  being able  to try                                                               
capital cases in Alaska's larger communities.                                                                                   
                                                                                                                                
MR. WOOLIVER said  there is both federal and state  case law that                                                               
says  the State  "can't just  take  a village  murder outside  of                                                               
Kotzebue and try  it in Anchorage," for example.   The concept of                                                               
"a jury  of one's  peers," he  explained, means  that ultimately,                                                               
the goal is to  try the case in the community  in which the crime                                                               
was committed,  or, as  a practical matter,  if the  community is                                                               
just  too small,  then the  case would  be tried  in the  nearest                                                               
venue  site.   In  response  to a  question,  he  said there  are                                                               
logistical  challenges  to  all  major  felony  trials  in  small                                                               
locations,  and that  this type  of trial  would be  particularly                                                               
challenging for a number of  reasons, though the ACS would strive                                                               
to meet  those challenges.   In response to another  question, he                                                               
reiterated his comment about the DOL's fiscal note.                                                                             
                                                                                                                                
REPRESENTATIVE COGHILL asked whether  the ACS has been confronted                                                               
with  similar  challenges  in cases  where  the  prosecution  was                                                               
seeking a 99-year sentence or similarly-long sentence.                                                                          
                                                                                                                                
MR.  WOOLIVER offered  his  recollection that  there  was a  very                                                               
serious felony  trial on Saint  Paul Island, and that  that trial                                                               
did  pose serious  challenges.    He said  he  would provide  the                                                               
committee  with more  information  regarding  other major  felony                                                               
trials occurring in small communities.   In response to a further                                                               
question, he too noted that  the Alaska State Constitution states                                                               
that  criminal administration  shall  be based  on  the need  for                                                               
protecting the  public, community  condemnation of  the offender,                                                               
the rights of  victims of crimes, restitution  from the offender,                                                               
and  the principle  of reformation,  and indicated  that the  ACS                                                               
keeps this mandate in mind when handing out sentences.                                                                          
                                                                                                                                
REPRESENTATIVE  GRUENBERG  offered  his  understanding  that  the                                                               
aforementioned requirement  that in so  far as possible,  a trial                                                               
take place  in the community in  which the crime occurred,  or as                                                               
close to it as possible,  is the constitutional right of vicinage                                                               
[referred  to in]  the  Alaska Supreme  Court  case, Alvarado  v.                                                             
State, 486 P.2d 891 (Alaska 1971).                                                                                            
                                                                                                                                
MR. WOOLIVER concurred.                                                                                                         
                                                                                                                                
9:38:15 AM                                                                                                                    
                                                                                                                                
SUSAN S.  McLEAN, Acting Deputy Attorney  General, Legal Services                                                               
Section, Criminal Division, Department  of Law (DOL), in response                                                               
to  a question,  also noted  that the  Alaska State  Constitution                                                               
states that  criminal administration shall  be based on  the need                                                               
for  protecting   the  public,  community  condemnation   of  the                                                               
offender, the rights  of victims of crimes,  restitution from the                                                               
offender, and the principle of  reformation.  She added that that                                                               
provision of the  Alaska State Constitution used  to provide that                                                               
the  goals  of criminal  administration  were  protection of  the                                                               
public and rehabilitation of the  offender, and that the addition                                                               
of community condemnation and restitution  was brought about by a                                                               
constitutional amendment approved  by the voters in  1994.  These                                                               
factors are considered during sentencing,  and have been codified                                                               
in case  law and  are known  as the  "Cheney (ph)  criteria," she                                                               
relayed,   adding    that   community   condemnation    and   the                                                               
reaffirmation  of societal  norms is  just  one of  the goals  of                                                               
sentencing.                                                                                                                     
                                                                                                                                
CHAIR  RAMRAS questioned  whether the  death penalty  for heinous                                                               
murders  could  be  construed as  satisfying  the  constitutional                                                               
requirement of providing for community condemnation.                                                                            
                                                                                                                                
MS. McLEAN surmised that that  argument might be raised in court,                                                               
and  offered her  belief that  such  an argument  does have  some                                                               
legal basis.  The flip side  of that argument, she added, is that                                                               
the   court  could   ignore  the   requirement  to   provide  for                                                               
rehabilitation,  and that  there is  lot of  case law  "that says                                                               
that as well."   In response to a question,  she said she doesn't                                                               
yet  know how  many  murder-in-the-first degree  cases have  been                                                               
tried  in courts  located outside  of  Anchorage, Fairbanks,  and                                                               
Juneau, but  relayed that Bethel  is a Superior Court  site, that                                                               
it would be  accurate to say that the presumption  is in favor of                                                               
the venue being where the  crime was committed, and that whenever                                                               
possible, first degree murders that  occur in Bethel are tried in                                                               
Bethel.                                                                                                                         
                                                                                                                                
MS. McLEAN,  in response to  comments, said she does  not believe                                                               
that  Alaska's  justice  system  is   a  failure,  as  some  have                                                               
contended,  but acknowledged  that "we  always have  to say  that                                                               
there is  no such thing  as an  infallible system."   She offered                                                               
her  belief that  Alaska's public  defenders  are expert  defense                                                               
attorneys,  probably better  qualified than  many of  the private                                                               
defense attorneys  trying serious cases.   She said she  knows of                                                               
no case in which a defender  was later exonerated on the basis of                                                               
DNA evidence,  or of any  evidence showing that  Alaska's justice                                                               
system is  a failure.   Alaska has an extremely  protective court                                                               
system that is  quick to overturn any case where  it appears that                                                               
the person  wasn't afforded  due process  of law  and all  of the                                                               
rights guaranteed under the constitutions.                                                                                      
                                                                                                                                
9:45:16 AM                                                                                                                    
                                                                                                                                
MS. McLEAN,  in response  to a request,  relayed that  during the                                                               
past five years,  170 cases involving murder in  the first degree                                                               
were referred for  prosecution, with an average of  34 such cases                                                               
per year;  of those  170 cases,  there were  33 dismissed  by the                                                               
State, there  were 25 reduced  to a different charge,  there were                                                               
18 that  ended with a conviction  for the crime of  murder in the                                                               
first degree, there were 14  in which the defendants "pleaded to"                                                               
the  crime of  murder  in the  first degree,  there  were 5  that                                                               
resulted  in "not  guilty"  verdicts, there  were  5 wherein  the                                                               
defendants  were not  indicted for  the  crime of  murder in  the                                                               
first degree by  the grand jury, there was 1  court trial wherein                                                               
the defendant plead guilty to a  lesser offense, there was 1 jury                                                               
trial wherein the case went to  trial but on a lesser charge, and                                                               
there was 1 acquittal.  She  said she would make those statistics                                                               
available to the committee.                                                                                                     
                                                                                                                                
MS. McLEAN, in response to comments  and a question, said she did                                                               
not  have statistics  regarding the  race or  ethnicity of  those                                                               
charged  with or  convicted of  murder in  the first  degree, but                                                               
that in  her experience,  there has  not been  a disproportionate                                                               
number of poor or minorities being  so charged or convicted.  She                                                               
acknowledged,  though,  that there  is  a  study indicating  that                                                               
there is a  disproportionate number of Alaska  Natives in prison.                                                               
In response to  a question, she offered to  research those issues                                                               
further.                                                                                                                        
                                                                                                                                
9:53:08 AM                                                                                                                    
                                                                                                                                
MS. LERMAN, in response to  comments, relayed that she and others                                                               
who've testified  thus far  today would  be available  during the                                                               
afternoon  meeting  to  address  the  aforementioned  forthcoming                                                               
amendments.  She  then suggested that the  committee research via                                                               
the  Internet  situations  involving  a scandal  at  the  Houston                                                               
Police Department (HPD)  crime lab, and a scandal  at the Federal                                                               
Bureau of  Investigation (FBI) crime lab;  these situations speak                                                               
volumes  regarding the  extent to  which DNA  and other  forms of                                                               
forensic evidence can't ever be considered "irrefutable."                                                                       
                                                                                                                                
[HB 9, Version E, was held over.]                                                                                               

Document Name Date/Time Subjects
Amendment 1 E.2.pdf HJUD 3/23/2009 8:00:00 AM
Amendment 1 E.1.pdf HJUD 3/23/2009 8:00:00 AM
HB9 Sponsor Statement.pdf HJUD 3/23/2009 8:00:00 AM
HB 9
HB9 Sectional version E.pdf HJUD 3/23/2009 8:00:00 AM
HB 9
HB9 CS version E.pdf HJUD 3/23/2009 8:00:00 AM
HB 9
HB9 Fiscal CTS Appellate.pdf HJUD 3/23/2009 8:00:00 AM
HB 9
HB9 Fiscal DOC-OC-02-24-09.pdf HJUD 3/23/2009 8:00:00 AM
HB 9
HB9 Fiscal Note-DPS-02-18-09.pdf HJUD 3/23/2009 8:00:00 AM
HB 9
HB9 Fiscal Trial Courts.pdf HJUD 3/23/2009 8:00:00 AM
HB 9
HB9-DOC-OC-03-15-09.pdf HJUD 3/23/2009 8:00:00 AM
HB 9
HB9-Fiscal DOA-OPA-2-20-09.pdf HJUD 3/23/2009 8:00:00 AM
HB 9
Amendment2.pdf HJUD 3/23/2009 8:00:00 AM
HB9-Fiscal DOA-PDA-(page 2)-2-20-09.pdf HJUD 3/23/2009 8:00:00 AM
HB 9
HB9-Fiscal LAW-CRIM-2-20-09.pdf HJUD 3/23/2009 8:00:00 AM
HB 9
HB9CS Fiscal Note-DHSS-02-19-09.pdf HJUD 3/23/2009 8:00:00 AM
HB 9